8 to 5; 10 to 7

November 5th, 2013
By

The state House Judiciary Committee and the House Finance Committee voted Tuesday evening to advance a marriage equality bill. Here is the roll call:

House JUD

YES (8)

Rep. Karl Rhoads (D)
Rep. Della Au Belatti (D)
Rep. Tom Brower (D)
Rep. Denny Coffman (D)
Rep. Derek Kawakami (D)
Rep. Chris Lee (D)
Rep. Jessica Wooley (D)
Rep. Cynthia Thielen (R)

NO (5)

Rep. Sharon Har (D)
Rep. Mele Carroll (D)
Rep. Ken Ito (D)
Rep. Clift Tsuji (D)
Rep. Bob McDermott (R)

House FIN

YES (10)

Rep. Sylvia Luke (D)
Rep. Scott Nishimoto (D)
Rep. Mark Hashem (D)
Rep. Kaniela Ing (D)
Rep. Bert Kobayashi (D)
Rep. Nicole Lowen (D)
Rep. Dee Morikawa (D)
Rep. Richard Onishi (D)
Rep. Gregg Takayama (D)
Rep. Kyle Yamashita (D)

NO (7)

Rep. Aaron Ling Johanson (R)
Rep. Ty Cullen (D)
Rep. Jo Jordan (D)
Rep. James Tokioka (D)
Rep. Justin Woodson (D)
Rep. Beth Fukumoto (R)
Rep. Gene Ward (R)

40 Responses to “8 to 5; 10 to 7”

  1. innocent observer:

    those who voted "no" failed to live up to the oath that they will uphold the constitution. the bill was about marriage equality, not religious freedom. no religious rights were abridged by the bill, as its religious exemption allow those religions that were anti-gay to still maintain their right to practice their religion without penalty from the public accommodations law. those democrats who voted "no" were more concerned about their political future and some testifiers had threatened them if they voted for the bill. this clearly shows that they had no "cajones", but merely wanted to please their constituents.


  2. ohiaforest3400:

    Very disappointed in Mele Carroll. She wanted the issue of parentage addressed, so the provision was deleted. She wanted the religious exemption expanded, specifically citing Connecticut law as an example, so the exemption language in the bill was replaced with language from the Connecticut law. Still, she voted "No."

    Why? Because she said the process was not "pono." So, Rep. Carroll, please answer these questions:

    (1) What did your vote against marriage equality do to make the process "pono"?

    (2) Will you be introducing a bill to amend the constitution to ban special sessions, or to limit them to, say, budget matters, since consideration of an issue such as marriage equality in a "special session" is not "pono"?

    (3) If SB1 does not pass, will you be introducing the House Draft in the 2014 Regular Session so that it cam be considered in a process that is "pono"?

    (4) If SB1 does pass, what will you do to make your "No" vote "pono" with the LGBT community from among whose members you count family members and close friends?


  3. ohiaforest3400:

    As for Justin Woodson, thank you for the attempt to explain your "No" vote, but it was incomprehensible. Please rewrite your remarks before Second and Third Reading so that the proponents may try to address your concerns.


  4. ohiaforest3400:

    And thank you to Kaniela Ing. We do not share the same spiritual tradition but your words were beautiful and compassionate, by far the best on either panel. If you are an example of the future of our representative democracy, I finally feel some hope.


  5. judy taqgerty:

    This is a very sad day for Hawai'i Nei. Lives for our Ohana will never be the same. Shame on those who voted "Yes", they will be responible for all the suffering that follows.

    Thank you for the ones who voted "NO", who care about WE the People and the future generations of Hawai'i Nei.

    We can only guess the Yes votes did not read the Bill for Act or understand what it will do to everyone who is not gay. The doors have been opened. What next. NAMBLA is already demonstrating on the mainland for their RIGHTS to have sex with Children made legal. Not good.

    Mahalo and May God have Mercy on us all.


  6. Barbara Ferraro:

    We Christians do have the right to object to these kinds of bills according to the First Amendment in both the Hawaii and Federal Constitution. And our religious freedoms continue to be under attack more and more every day. I pray for those who still don't get it and may never get it, but I hate to see anyone go into eternity without God's free gift of salvation. Believe me, He is very aware of all that everyone is doing and will still allow them to repent should they want to, but the time is coming very soon when He will make His judgment final. Until then, there is still time. God bless you all.


  7. Mr. T:

    All is not lost. Want to make a difference? At the next election, run on the traditional marriage platform in every district that had a yes vote in the Senate and the House. The People will vote for you.


  8. Sheldon:

    The tally:
    Thursday: 82% oppose, 18% support
    Friday: 80% oppose, 20% support
    Saturday: 90% oppose, 10% support
    Monday (as of 5:00 pm) 91% oppose, 9% support.

    That's comes to:
    86% Oppose
    14% Support

    I'm sure as a representative the choice is obvious.
    Please do the right thing. Mahalo!


  9. Angela:

    Mahalo to the Representatives that truly represented the voice of the people and voted "no". Clearly the majority of Hawai'i's people are against this SB1 bill. How could anyone possibly deny this when more than 80% of the testimonys during the hearing were against the bill and on the first day of the special session 10,000 people showed up to rally against the bill. Less than 500 came to rally in support of the bill. With record breaking hours of testimony you would think that this topic was hot enough to publish the facts about it. But for some reason the majority of the public has not been made aware of what really happened during the hearing.


  10. Kaleo K.:

    THIS ISN'T ABOUT CHRISTIANITY!
    Why does everyone make it about that! It's about the government deceiving us in 1998 and are now twisting things and rushing something through with an alternate agenda! They lied to us and now they are ramming something down our throats!

    I plead with you all, DO NOT FORGET COME NEXT YEAR WHEN IT IS TIME TO VOTE!! Let the people decide- in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!!


  11. wop ur jaws:

    With Liberty and justice for all. So much hate from so much Christians.


  12. kimo browner:

    Cynthia Thielen once again proves to be a RINO and fraud. She also sponsored an energy bill banning oil and gas fracking in Hawaii. Sounds good, except there is no oil or gas in Hawaii. Than she calls HECO's system of production and transmission archaic but supports their monopoly. Duplicity? You bet. She is a contradiction to her party platform, shibai in her energy bill and duplicitous in her actions against HECO.
    BTW, didn't her daughter jump party lines just to get elected?
    Mother and daughter--do anything, say anything, join anything--just to be elected.
    Where is the character?


  13. jumpinjelleybean:

    From _The American Dictionary of the English Language_

    MAR'RIAGE, n. [L.mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.


  14. Donna A:

    I am disheartened that those who voted "yes" in the House of Judiciary and House of Finance Committee SB1 was passed. Those who voted "yes" will be accountable and responsible for people's sins , 31 "For behold I say unto you, the sins of many people have been caused by the iniquities of their (leaders) kings; therefore their iniquities are answered upon the heads of their (leaders) kings" Mosiah 29:31(Book Of Mormon). Those who voted "yes" corrupted the Hawaii Nei.. This is not God's will..


  15. Michelle:

    With the overwhelming public response against passage of this bill it is incredulous to think that these elected politicians voted on behalf of their constituents. No...they voted for a personal and political agenda of their own; from Abercrombie on down. There is money and favors for these politicians who supported the bill.
    Never once was the interest of the people of Hawaii considered. What goes around comes around...and somewhere along the line the dishonesty of these politicians will catch up with them. Please write their names down, remember them...and work to oust them from office in the next election. This issue is not about equality; but quality of life, education and the right of personal liberty. Fairness took a back seat. Shame on you; House and Senate members.


  16. Amber Dennis:

    Those of you that say this has nothing to do with religious rights - have you been awake and with us the last couple of weeks?

    Parents are losing the right to teach their children according to the bible.

    Families are already being sued for being selective about the practices that happen in their own home.

    Businesses are being sued for not participating in pushing the agenda's of the LGBT.

    Teachers will be forced to teach sensitive subjects without letting parents opt out.

    Religious institutions and schools will be forced to allow all kinds of events and activities that are contrary to their religious convictions.

    Religious schools will be forced to abandon their religious stance or risk being sued or shut down.

    Faith and religion are the basis and the foundation of the success of this country. If we continue this attack on faith the country will suffer tremendously.

    Seriously! The state and federal government have failed everyone. The civil unions should have been recognized to protect the rights of those unified. At a state level we needed to figure out the process of how to recognize the civil unions so they received ALL their benefits. That was one of the reasons they were unified to their partners. We could have spent the last couple weeks fighting to protect the rights of all instead of dividing our community. Businesses, doctors offices and state and federal offices can alter their procedures to be more sensitive to the LGBT community. Questionnaires and polls should ask if you are unified/married so as to protect the couples that are joined forever in their civil union. Shame on us in the community for not taking more care to honor these unions and shame on those representing them in government for not taking care of their needs. However, the injustice that has gone on thus far does not justify stripping the rest of the state of their religious freedoms and freedom of speech. It is NOT PONO and it does severely jeopardize the religious freedoms of millions across this once free country.


  17. Nala007:

    It is funny how people keep saying they were lied to. Instead of listening to all the rhetoric, I actually took the time to read HB117, the Con Amendment bill of 1997. The legislative intent is so explicitly stated that only an obtuse delusional person can't see it. The Con Amendment was written to nullify the court ruling ordering same-sex marriage and to leave this authority with the legislature. It is there in the bill in black and white. It is so clear. Other states that wanted an explicit constitutional ban on same-sex marriage had very explicit con amendments that outrightly state that same-sex marriage is banned OR explicitly define marriage as only being between a man and woman. What is your problem folks. That is NOT what the Hawaii Con Amend reads. "The legislature shall have the power to reserve marriage to opposite sex couples." Perhaps English is not your primary language? Nothing in that amendment requires the legislature to do anything. Nothing in that amendment actually mandates an opposite-sex only definition of marriage. All it does is give the legislature the power to ban marriage equality IF it so chooses and without regard to what the Hawaii courts say. Case closed already.


  18. Keith Rollman:

    Those on this committee who voted "NO," "failed to live up to their oath," according to some commenters. What
    "oath" are you referring to...the one to do whatever their party bosses told them to do?


  19. Alan Umeda:

    People opposing SB 1 bill and supporting traditional marriage have made their voices heard. As Kaleo K wrote,DO NOT FORGET COME NEXT YEAR WHEN IT IS TIME TO VOTE!! We need to vote those senators, representatives and Abercrombie, who failed to listen to the will of the people OUT OF OFFICE, it's not a matter of being republican or democrat. We had our say, and next year it's time to back it up with our vote.


  20. Aunty Lucy:

    To all the representatives who are voting yes to SB1 you may not be in office after 2014 to see all the unanswered questions be answered but non the less you will be responsible if this bill passes. There are to many questions to be answered including the health of our keiki. I ask you to use common sense and vote NO.


  21. innocent observer:

    roolman - when a legislator is sworn in, he/she swears to uphold the constitution of the US and State, included in these constitutions are the protection of civil rights. hence, when the issue of civil rights is the object of the bill, then they should be for the protection of civil rights of the minority. to reiterate, no religious rights were being abridged by the bill. they know this, but their political philosophy and personal bias are more important that the protection of civil rights for minorities as required by the constitution.


  22. Mr. T:

    SB1, a bill that once passed, promotes and enforces homosexuality in schools, courts, law enforcement, and government to allow a minority to oppress the majority.
    SB1, if passed, also removes the boundary between gender. As the Canadian testifier put it. It is like removing the lines on a multilane highway traveling in opposite directions. There would be chaos.
    Civil rights? How far can it be from the truth? Protect the People. Kill SB1.


  23. Especially Incognito:

    I can't go to New York and enter a lottery,
    so why should anyone who transplanted here
    have Resident Entitlement.

    Is number 5,185 still waiting in line?


  24. Especially Incognito:

    Those who worry should worry about Health Care
    and the Debt ceiling.

    Equality will never be enforced if bullies are
    still allowed to bully.
    Someone wants special
    treatment but they are not entitled
    to any special treatment.

    Like saying Tea Party is a seperate Party, which it is not.
    Which box do they check? There is not third box.


  25. Traudel (Trudy) L. Haney:

    Our prayer shall be that Hawaii begin to heal from this; pono be restored. It is a very difficult decision that each representative has made. I do not comprehend how, but definitely sense the heart felt testimony presented on both sides, and it is on record.
    Aloha is extended to ALL, our DNA structure is a way of life for us indigenous people of Hawaii, Pray for healing of our aina and future...


  26. Mr. M:

    For those of you that think that passing a bill to allow same sex marriage will lead to chaos, your fears are unfounded. There are 15 other states that have passed similar legislation years ago and none of them have fallen into chaos. If it's against your religion, that's fine, but god never told you to lie about a subject just so that you can impose your viewpoint on others and yet here you are spreading deceit and fear. You may want to actually try practicing what you preach. God's word is about love, not the hateful viewpoints that many of you have.


  27. Nala007:

    No where in the USA have legislators been voted out of office for supporting marriage equality. The opponents of SB1 are the same people that raised a ruckus with the civil union law. They preached gloom and doom...all the same complaints they have about SB1. After civil unions passed, none of their predictions came true. They also threatened to vote out all the legislators who supported civil unions. The 2010 and 2012 elections came and went and guess what? Those legislators are still in office, just as they will be in 2014 after supporting SB1. Delude yourselves with your false threats if it makes you feel better. The country has changed. Time to move on.


  28. Kula96790:

    i remember Rep. David Morihara, a devout Christian, telling the Kula Community Association at our meeting, which was televised on Akaku, in 98, that the constitutional amendment was worded to strike a balance between the competing voices and allow those in the homosexual community to return to the legislature at a future time to lobby for equal rights if people had a change of heart. He said if you vote yes, you would give the legislature the power to define marriage, which would overrule the courts which said the legislature didn't have that power. He said if you vote blank or no, then you would be supporting the courts' decision. He said that in response to one guy's question of why the amendment didn't just ban gay marriage.

    I'm not sure what other politicians told their constituents but it was clear to us in Upcountry Maui what was being decided 15 years ago. If people feel deceived, maybe they need to look to their sources of information 15 years ago because the Office of Elections material that was in the Maui News then seemed to be the same as Rep. Morihara's explanation, as far as I recall.


  29. Especially Incognito:

    If it were up to Muslims, gays would be in hiding from execution.
    Also don't blame all Christians since they too are divided
    in views. Christians have many beliefs and many don't
    agree or disagree. Many just tolerate.


  30. Elevila:

    It is apparent that this is being driven by a higher power. President Obama is pulling the strings. Governor Abercrombie is acting like a Dictator! As a Voter, do you feel violated? Absolutely!!! We are being lied to and bullied and IGNORED !

    Clearly, Hawaii voters voted in the Constitutional Amendment in Nov. 1998 to preserve
    "Marriage between one man and one woman". Any deviation from that is a conspiracy of the highest form. From President Obama, to Governor Abercrombie, to the Hawaii Senate and now the House. This has been a perfectly perpetrated plan all along.......it is the AGENDA !!

    It may seem like the people of Hawaii have lost the battle, but I say, Keep the Faith,
    Have the Courage to talk to your politians TODAY, call them, Tell them to VOTE NO!!
    If not, then put them out of a JOB in the next election.

    Marriage is NOT a CIVIL RIGHT ! Government does not have the right to Re-define
    God's Law of Marriage. Marriage is a SACRED INSTITUTION set up by God for the
    purpose of procreating.
    Genesis 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”


  31. Eric Ryan:

    Kula96790 is exactly right. Self-described conservative "leaders" didn't get what they wanted from the liberal state legislature 15 years ago. But these so-called leaders took what they got and ran with it; convincing far too many people in the process (then and now) that the constitution was amended to prohibit gay/lesbian marriage. Then these supposed leaders fell asleep for the past 15 years, waking up to find they kinda won that battle and lost the war (first civil unions, then gay marriage). Will these leaders go back to sleep after the special session? That's the big question. Kinda hard to put the genie back in the bottle.


  32. Especially Incognito:

    Actually it was transplants that preached.
    Many born and raised in Hawaii, just tolerated.

    What happened to number 5,185? Still
    waiting in line.


  33. Nala007:

    Wow, I actually agree with Eric Ryan. This is a first. Of course I support marriage equality and he does not. But at least he acknowledges the truth about the 98 amendment. Thanks Eric. Though I wouldn't quite say that conservatives fell asleep for the past 15 years. I would go farther and say that they lost touch with the reality of our changing world. They may have won the battle in 1998 but they have lost the war. It is already lost. And all the delay tactics occurring now at the Capitol don't serve any purpose other than to rally their supporters and look like heroes. In the end, SB1 will pass. Marriage equality is here to stay.


  34. Especially Incognito:

    So will Divorce equality.
    Marriages now for those who
    get married should go through a
    phycological test. Both man and woman
    or gay couples.
    Since gays feel bullied,
    they may like man and woman as parents,
    abuse their children.


  35. Especially Incognito:

    Psychological test.

    Mistake to prove I am not using plagiarism. rand paul


  36. Laughing Parrot:

    Amber, let me help you with some of your concerns:

    "Parents are losing the right to teach their children according to the bible." No. Parents do and will always have the right to teach their children their religious faiths and traditions. This bill merely gives all individuals the right to marry another person, that's all.

    "Families are already being sued for being selective about the practices that happen in their own home." No. Not a single family in Hawaii has been sued because of being "selective about the practices that happen in their own home." Discrimination based on sexual orientation by commercial establishments has been against the law in Hawaii since 2006. A Hawaii commercial bed and breakfast business that served hundreds of customers a year, advertised all over the world, and never asked potential customers about their religious backgrounds was sued for refusing to rent a room to a lesbian couple. This was not a family but a for profit business (which, by the way paid the transient accommodation tax)

    "Businesses are being sued for not participating in pushing the agenda's of the LGBT." No. Where to start with this point? If you can provide the name of such a business we will be happy to investigate the facts and report back to you.

    "Teachers will be forced to teach sensitive subjects without letting parents opt out." No. The Hawaii State Department of Education Policy Policy #2210 expressly provides that parents may instruct the school to exclude their child from controversial subjects. Marriage is not a part of the DOE curriculum.

    "Religious institutions and schools will be forced to allow all kinds of events and activities that are contrary to their religious convictions." No. This bill is only related to solemnizations and marriages, no other events or activities. Whatever the law is with respect to those other activities does not change. The bill exempts religious organizations and nonprofit organizations controlled, supervised, or operated by a religious organization from providing facilities, grounds, goods, and services for solemnizations and celebrations that violate their faith.

    "Religious schools will be forced to abandon their religious stance or risk being sued or shut down." No. Where this fear comes from? First, if the institution is a relgious organization it is exempt. Second, if it is a school where solemnizations and marriages do not occur than why would it have to shut down or be sued?


  37. Especially Incognito:

    Seems that it thinks it is a Civil Authority.


  38. jumpinjelleybean:

    Killing Democracy in a Liberal Paradise
    by Lincoln Brown
    Nov. 08, 2013
    Let’s forget for a moment whether or not same sex marriage is right or wrong. Even all of the conservatives and Christians I know are not of the same mind on it. That is another red-faced, spit flying, scream-fest for another time. Personally, I really am not interested in what anyone, straight or gay does in their personal moments. I am happy leaving them alone, and I expect to be left alone myself.

    So can we set aside for the moment the issue of whether same sex marriage is good or bad, moral or immoral, decent or indecent? For the record, I am white, straight and Christian, go ahead and hate me if you must.

    Instead of trading punches over gay marriage, let’s talk about process. Let’s talk about the public arena, and let’s talk about truth.

    Today in Hawaii, the state senate will have a final reading on a same-sex marriage. The measure is SB1. In fact, the governor of the state, Neil Abercrombie has called a special session of the legislature on the matter. Naturally, being a blue state, the legislature is for it, and the media is for it, and they would both have the world believe that everyone in Hawaii is for it. But truth be told, many Hawaiians are not for it at all. In fact, the majority of Hawaiians are not for it. According to Annora Ng, who is leading the fight against the bill, support for Same Sex marriage in Hawaii is anemic, to describe it charitably. The figures from the house minority office from last week show that Hawaiians are very much opposed to the idea. As of last Thursday, 18 percent of the population favored same sex marriage, 82 percent opposed it. By Friday, support had risen to 20 percent, the opposition was at 80 percent. By this past Saturday, only 10 percent supported the move, 90 percent were in opposition. As of Sunday, 9 percent of Hawaiians were on board, 91 percent were opposed. Those numbers alone should have sent a clear message to the elected officials of the Aloha State. But as Miss Ng discovered, one can appeal to the legislature, but whether or not one will get a fair hearing, well, that is another story altogether. To get an idea of what the Hawaiian Senate thought of the people opposed to Same Sex Marriage, you can view how Miss Ng was treated at these You Tube sites:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbC6SU7k9A4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NoFoDxg0PQ

    And that is only the husk of the proverbial coconut. Miss Ng reported to me that senators have been sleeping through testimony, and one senator posted insulting remarks on his Facebook pages (Which was down when I checked.) Ng said that the Senate has been limiting opposition testimony to one minute at times, and in some cases, working class families who paid $200 to fly from the other islands to testify could not even speak, while proponents of same sex marriage and their proxies were given ample time. Those wishing to testify against the bill including many native Hawaiians were barred from speaking at all.

    Interestingly enough, Ng reports: “One of the bill’s provisions would waive the domicile requirements for a same-sex couple to obtain a divorce in the State of Hawaii while still requiring at least one person for an opposite-sex marriage. The bill would also have granted Native Hawaiian rights and privileges to a child of a same-sex couple that may not biologically have an ounce of Native Hawaiian blood.”

    As to the requests to let Hawaiians vote on the matter, in Ng’s words: “House Speaker Joseph Souki has even resorted to cutting the live feed of Wednesday’s House proceedings in an effort to keep the work in the “People’s House” cloaked under a veil of secrecy.” And a rally of 7,000 people in opposition to the move was reported by the lone statewide newspaper as “hundreds.”

    According to Ng’s group known as The Coalition To Let the People Decide on Marriage, support for the bill has come largely from the mainland, and at one point, LGBT supporters took down the American Flag at the State Capitol and raised the rainbow flag in its place. One Christian station which is opposed to the Bill has been labeled an instigator of mob violence. Despite the accusation, there was an eye witness report of a gay activist attacking a pregnant woman and dragging her in his truck. Her husband reportedly had to break the windshield to rescue her.

    This is what democracy looks like?

    If you are for Same Sex Marriage, fine you are for Same Sex Marriage. Lobby for it, campaign for it, write about it and speak passionately about it. Make your case, let your voice be heard, that’s how the First Amendment works.

    But don’t fly in support from outside the area. Don’t muzzle the people who have to live under the law, and don’t drag pregnant women from trucks. (That last one is good advice no matter where you are and whatever you are doing.)

    What does Democracy look like? It looks like elected officials listening to the constituents who elected them, and not to outsiders. It looks like a media that tells the truth, even if the truth isn’t what said media hoped it would be. Whether you are gay or straight, red or blue, Democracy is vox populi.

    We visited Hawaii this winter. We probably won’t be back. Not because we did not enjoy it, it was beautiful, the people were nice and the weather was great. But we won’t be back because the state already seems to be choked with haoles like us. No reason for us to add to the population density. Aside from the fact that I saw huge a chunk of Kauai that belongs to the federal government and not to the native Hawaiian’s whose cultural birthright it represents, I saw three classes of people: 1) Native Hawaiians doing a lot of the work that Americans supposedly won’t do, as we say on the mainland 2) Wanna-be hippies thumbing rides everywhere and 3) Old, white liberals with incredibly tony boutiques full of merchandise priced out of my demographic.

    Whether Hawaii is for or against same sex marriage, or liberal or conservative, let Hawaii be Hawaii, and not a place where agendized people simply go to live out their dreams.


  39. Especially Incognito:

    rant paul, now we have two.


  40. Political Radar | House JUD, Part II | Political Radar | staradvertiser.com | Honolulu, Hawaii:

    [...] said privately in recent days that they believed Carroll would vote against the bill, which she ultimately did. Rep. Ken Ito and Rep. Clift Tsuji, who initially said they were undecided, had also shifted to the [...]


Leave a Reply